What are the chances of bad news at the 20 week scan | Mumsnet The blood test confirmed it was twins. So we'd gone through the Down's syndrome or worse scare, we'd had conversations about what we would do, if it was confirmed that it was Down's syndrome or another syndrome, another sort of chromosome abnormality. We were bound to each other because of the blood that was on both our hands. You will be able to discuss this with your midwife or consultant. Despite this new discovery, the sonographer was still concerned. She just said, 'It's a bit short, it needs to be checked' again basically. Not a good sign in a hospital consulting room. Seeing your baby on a screen can be really exciting. I felt sad, but not the complete devastation of the last scan as they had seen a change of some sort. Can you describe the difference between the scan at this later stage in a pregnancy? I remember thinking, 'Gosh' I now know it was a girl, I didn't know that then, that, 'She looks just like her brother'. We talked all night and thanked God for crap television. And in this instance the scan was very evident that there was something very seriously wrong. And I knew there was no way out. The consultant showed us the letter with our result on and, yes, there were the words "Down's syndrome". Public Health England (PHE) created this information on behalf of the NHS. So carried on with the plans, and, you know, planning for the, another baby to come along and then we went for a 20- week scan which is obviously the big one and very exciting, seeing all the arms and legs and once again everything was going fine, 'Look here's the baby, here's the length of baby'. I couldn't bring myself to push. Scans cannot find all conditions. You know there's always that bit on the bottom of the thing, 'These are diagnostics, do not bring other children,' - blah, blah, blah.. it's not, you know, it's not a family outing kind of thing, but it feels like it. I didn't want to go through anymore scans. When I told him what had happened, he refused to believe anything was wrong and said he'd sort it out when he came home. The "why me?" Previous scans in this pregnancy and with my first child had been fun - a chance to see the baby wriggling around and perhaps find out its sex. There was complete silence during the scan. We're going to go and see them. The midwife was on the verge of tears and I felt responsible. Most scans show that babies seem to be developing as expected, and none of the 11 conditions are found. The clinic advised a follow up scan the week after, to check on progress and to see what to do next. In order for the sonographer to get good images of your baby, the scan is carried out in a dimly lit room. And that was a terrible moment to be sort of hanging on, waiting. We must have had one before that as well, we must have had one before that, but it came back quite normal. After half an hour of lying on the bed, I was starting to get nervous, but was excited to find out that the baby would be a boy and that I could see his little heart beating strongly. And that was Monday afternoon. Immediately I knew what decision we should take. Thinking back, I don't know how we left without him. We had amnio and then spent a week in absoute anguish waiting for the outcome which was no trisomies. Others said they were shocked because all the early diagnostic tests (e.g. But he was wrong. This publication is available at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/screening-tests-for-you-and-your-baby/11-physical-conditions-20-week-scan. It's quite common, perhaps 1 in 10 they find these, and within a few weeks they disappear. I want to enjoy my son again, without any reservations. Thick milky discharge at 14 weeks.tmi pic attached. So obviously quite relaxed. I swallowed the tablet and we left the building. Desperately trying to hold onto the glimmer of hope we'd been given. So even if anomolies are found, they don't always mean a problem.. x. I had issues at the 20 weeks scan with both of mine. So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. No one else but my partner saw how similar he was to our son. We scattered his ashes over a bunch of snowdrops. . Still, the consultant thought things would be OK. Forcing my hand to my mouth to take the tablet was probably the hardest thing I have ever done. Saturday came. I went home feeling crushed; Sam and I both felt helpless. hi ladies. Is it the same scan or is it the same equipment? 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. It was, 'Oh we'll come back to that'. Our baby was beautiful. I didn't really know what that was. For women who have been given distressing news about their baby during the scan, there should be a health professional available to provide immediate support. 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. And at that point I don't think we, I don't think we realised that there might have to be a decision, because we'd talked about it with, with Down's and the other possible problems, but at this point it was, well okay what can be done to fix the problem - because yes the heart's not developing properly but there must be something we can do. I think I was about 20 weeks cos they, the hospital I think did the 12 and the 20, that was their standard thing and, yeah, so I got the 20 weeks one. All my plans were beginning to fall down. I know its hard- but i really wouldnt worry about it too much as the worry will stress you and your body out. It would be a personal tragedy for my partner and me, but that is all. Unfortunately I was not met with a compassionate sonographer. Our nightmare began when I went for my 20-week scan. And the next day we went back to the hospital and we had another scan with a specialist, and he confirmed it was a condition called holoprosencephaly, which I'd never heard of any of these words before, they were just such long words. Picture every packed football staduim up and down the country - all healthy pregnancies and births. The week that followed was an agonising wait. My mum arrived early to look after our son, and my partner and I got a cab to the hospital. And having read, since read my information on Edwards' syndrome, a good 85 per cent have problems with the heart. Another sick joke. After that I got, I, it was about in, in 19-, hang on a minute, 2001 I got pregnant again, slightly unexpectedly. I mean, you just, you're just overwhelmed, it's so much fun. So I no longer trusted my instincts. But it was very evident. There was cause for concern. You get extra care and monitoring as appropriate and baby is proactively treated. Only this time, no cry came. Or, at the very least, heart problems. We use some essential cookies to make this website work. For five months my body had known there was something wrong, yet I had felt fantastic. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of such a late termination, but had assumed it would mean some kind of operation. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, 'it didn't look good' and that 'my womb looked raggedy'. After she had taken all the measurements, the sonographer told us that she was concerned with the length of the baby's limbs in relation to the head. Hugely upset that to think that the baby was so poorly. 20-week ultrasound (anomaly scan) - BabyCenter Australia The baby was kicking so hard that I began to believe him. My wife had been very, very healthy, more healthy than the first pregnancy, and of course was shattered by the fact that the news, the news was appalling, very serious faces. Some people had underestimated how serious any abnormality found at this stage could be for the baby. Again the legs were quite twisted, they said that the baby's sternum was very short - things weren't in proportion you know - the head was quite large, the neck was very thick, there wasn't really like a neck as such it was just things were kind of - there were lots of things that obviously the consultant could see that we weren't aware of. There is more detailed information about the main conditions that are looked for during this scan on NHS.UK. You've had a scan, you've had the blood tests, you've been good. No, you couldn't see there was anything wrong. I had to stop myself from yanking out the needle. And this baby sort of floated, and occasionally there was a slight movement, but it was very you could almost see that he was really poorly just from looking at the screen. I mean the lady who was scanning was very quiet for a long time. The first words I said were: "If there's anything wrong then it's my fault", I had been working 70, nearly 80 hours the previous weeks and pushed myself hard. The sonographer will be able to tell you the results of the scan at the time. or sort of light chat that we'd, we'd experienced before with previous scans. And as soon as she said those words, both of us were like, 'Well what's wrong?'. I guess the morphine made it easier. It was far too much power; neither of us wanted it. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. It wasn't measuring at all the right measurements for the age - there was a heart defect, the limbs were sort of distorted, the arms were, you know - you could see that the arms were very sort of contracted, the hands were contracted. It felt as if we'd gone underground, that we were part of the criminal fraternity. The doctor wanted to do another blood test to confirm a significant drop in my hormone levels. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. Two days, after on Christmas Eve, (my 12 week date) I had more blood tests. I didn't sleep that night I don't think. I faced another internal scan where I began to feel helpless and alone. I loved him instantly and didn't want to let him go. So when that happened to us I really didn't worry, I thought, you know, it was literally the baby was in awkward position, they couldn't see the heart and that was why. I know it is still early days. How common is it for 2nd baby to come early..? Nights were impossible. It is essential that all practitioners performing fetal anomaly ultrasound screening should be trained to communicate abnormal findings to women, as such information is likely to have significant emotional impact. See more information about the 20-week ultrasound scan. Specialist scans had a powerful effect on some parents because they could see the baby more clearly and in some cases people recognised which parts of the baby's body were not working properly. So he was about two weeks smaller than what he should have been. It was positive, and I felt elated. The consultant explained that this was just very bad luck and not, as far as they knew, genetic. I can't remember the exact words but she said, 'There might be some fatal problems with your baby'. So and you could see the exomphalus, this little pouch, which was obviously just the intestines where they are. He looked excited. I wasn't ready to make a decision straight away, and I was told I could call them in the morning. I tried to show him the notes and the photos. I still feel guilty, I still cry at random times. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. Living in this world must be unbearable for them. It was horrible. chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet. All the hopes, dreams, and plans we made with our little bumps has been taken away from us. Read full disclaimer. . Tissue paper will be tucked around your clothing to protect it from the ultrasound gel, which will then be put on your tummy. This does not mean there is anything to worry about. Some things can be seen more clearly than others. To view this licence, visit nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3 or write to the Information Policy Team, The National Archives, Kew, London TW9 4DU, or email: psi@nationalarchives.gov.uk. No one else felt him kick. I am a darker, harder version of myself. And at the end of the day however much we talked about it - that it was going to be the two of us to make the decision and me to actually you know, go through it and decide that that was what was going to happen for him - and I just, I didn't want to do it. Can you remember that minute. As I was called for my scan I was nervous and emotional. Again, no notes can have been written down because the midwife asked the same question. Good luck has not come easily over the past few years. I give obsessively to charity, especially those linked to sick children. As two youngest siblings, we were both permanently stuck in the irresponsible, childish role. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and over again. I know it sounds odd that you want to hear that it's wrong, but you, you know it's wrong, and you, you want to be reassured either that it's okay or is there something seriously wrong. This might be uncomfortable. I wanted to let nature take its course. And you know, we were laughing and joking. Most hospitals do not allow children to attend scans as childcare is not usually available. You will then be asked to raise your top to your chest and lower your skirt or trousers to your hips. I was told this was common as my body and hormones still thought I was pregnant. We need to have your opinion'. He looked fine. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . And there [sighs] was a very dark patch over one, where the eye socket was, and they didn't know it, in the Edward's babies sometimes the eyes don't develop properly, or it might have been bleeding, they weren't very sure. Sam squeezed my hand and told me it was ok. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. unfortunately the 20 week anomaly scan can pick up serious issues, hearing heart beats at midwife appointment doesn't let us know what's going on inside the body in detail. Which is what I'd seen. I had to wait for a doctor to explain the situation. Do you have any thoughts about that? And even at that early stage it was beginning to sink in that there was something really not right. And, faced with feeling sorry for myself or feeling sorry for my child, I know which I'd choose. Back on the EPU unit, a doctor organised for me to be admitted into the ward, to take the medical management under supervision as the sac was now to big for me to safely miscarry on my own at home. You have accepted additional cookies. We had so much power, we could decide that this little thing should die. I popped out from work, telling my boss I'd be back in half an hour. But I still didn't want to be the one who stopped this baby's chance to live. On the next shift, the new midwife asked us again. And, for a few hours, I'm convinced I've made a terrible mistake. And it's like, I really wanted to see it and I didn't, and it was it was very mixed. So I lay on the bed and my partner sat next to me. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. Then I picked myself up. I would be put to sleep, and when I woke up I wouldn't be pregnant any more. [Husband] couldn't make it. But he was not sure. And they, sort of two of them were looking at the scan machine and then they sort of switched everything off and said, 'Oh, I think we have, might have a problem'. I sat and waited to be called for my scan. The scan was inconclusive, but the size of my little bump was measuring a lot smaller than it should have for 10 weeks. I was sent home with a leaflet, strong painkillers and two types of antibiotics. We went, I went in to the scanning room and they're quite bland facially anyway, whether everything's fine or not they just look at the screen to start off with and do measurements but I very quickly realised that the woman's demeanour wasn't, even for a bland face, was concerning. The scan yet again confirmed things were not good, however the sac had grown. But you know I knew we had, we had to make a decision that was right for the baby as well. And they took me into another room. I travelled to work that day feeling amazing. Instead, we were shown to a room slightly away from the rest of the ward and the midwife stayed with us to talk through what was going to happen. The rarest scenario is that the baby is severely ill and choices will need to be made. I wrote a few things down last night when we were trying to go over things, just to remind myself. Originally I hadn't wanted to go down that road. However, at the time neither of us could articulate that. We also use cookies set by other sites to help us deliver content from their services. Being generous and kind generally happens only when you're happy. That he - I think I was 21 weeks and 3 days, and he was coming up at 19 weeks and 4 days, or something like that. Sometimes it is difficult to get good views of a baby. Because we knew that that wasn't normal, that wasn't what we'd experienced before, it wasn't just the, 'There's the arm, there's the leg, oh look the baby's moving'. But other than that everything was fine. See you in -. So I trusted him. The same anticipation. 'I was having nightmares and panic attacks. Nice people shouldn't hear about what we'd done. All women are offered a dating scan, and an 18- 20 week fetal anomaly ultrasound scan, in line with NICE and UK National Screening Committee recommendations. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here), tbh, they never give you good news at scans. And my partner and I would have a completely different life from the one we'd imagined. And attribute some blame to them. Wed like to set additional cookies to understand how you use GOV.UK, remember your settings and improve government services. How common is it to get bad news at 20 week scan? | Mumsnet I tried to keep positive. Emma was 20 weeks' pregnant when a routine scan revealed that the baby she was expecting had Down's syndrome and heart problems. The gel makes sure there is good contact between the probe and your skin. Sometimes specialist scans such as 3D scans, or MRI scans, are used to examine the baby in greater detail. I was given a leaflet and told to return four days later to see the consultant. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. I agreed to an internal scan as the sonographer said we could get a better picture of what was happening. Everywhere you look, there are happy, fat, smug pregnant women. She wanted to have a look at the skull, which was the main thing, but she couldn't see it from where the baby was. But the closeness has remained after the drama has died down. I let out an animal scream and [wife] kind of leapt onto me on the bed. There is always a chance that a baby may be born with a health issue that scans could not have identified. Yeah - in, stomach, out. She describes having to make a . Limitations of the 18-20 week scan So we decided that, to have the scan and we went along I think early in the week for that, and spent quite a lot of time with the consultant after that. Sam reassured me, but the guilt had hit me along with the feeling that our world was falling apart. It was all going wrong and I wanted to get as far away from the hospital as possible. 10/03/2021 16:13, @Cormoransjacket That's fine. The same anxious wait for a little, pathetic cry. Next most likely (but actually in the minority) they identify something which whilst not 100% healthy is treatable. For once in my life, I had been organised. The first result, which tells you if the baby has Down's syndrome, is ready in three days, but the other chromosomal problems cannot be eliminated for up to three weeks. Yeah, yeah. And I remember, the first thing I remember when something might be wrong, was I saw, I finally, we finally saw an image of the skull on the screen, and there appeared to be a sort of black hole shape in the middle. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. Christmas came and went in a blur of emotion, it felt so wrong to be celebrating when we were in such turmoil. So we left it there, and we didn't actually think that there was anything really to worry about after that scan. At which point they turned round and said, 'Well, there is something very seriously wrong with the baby, we don't know exactly what, but you do need to have a more in-depth scan at your regional hospital to find out the detail'. Just that really! For example, the babys brain, kidneys, internal organs or bones may not have developed properly. There are no known risks to your baby or the mother from having an ultrasound scan but it is important that you consider carefully whether or not to have the 20-week scan. At that point, I got very not upset but quite sort of strongly severe sort of with the people at the hospital saying, 'Look, you know, that's 24 hours, possibly a 48 hours' wait - that's not something that's tenable. I want to be nice again. I felt more informed, and I felt that that was what I needed in my head to see you know, that I've got to accept now that this, all these things are real on the screen and this was really my baby that's suffering all these things [sighs], but I was sad as well. They said the brain was okay -, We were in there for a matter of minutes, literally -, In and out. Because, when you're angry with the world for dealing you such a shit time, you begin to hate the people who populate it. He was tiny, perfect and a Down's syndrome baby. And again, you know, you read all the books and it tells you 'this is the diagnostics', but after a while you don't hear that inside your head any more No, no, no, I'm fine - because everything's perfect. I noticed the box of tissues on the table. I think what everyone is saying is that most likely outcome is that there are no problems at all. I believed at this point I had miscarried, they wanted me to come back I'm for a follow up scan. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. We walked all the way home. Chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet 26/09/2019 22:46. Soon, the doctor came and inserted the tablets that would induce labour. Instead, I had to raise a glass of water to my mouth, take a swig and swallow the tablet. So I suppose from that aspect, mind you having not been told that or sitting there, I wouldn't have thought necessarily that was odd. But for those few days they were torture. And as, and as soon as I saw the pictures of the scan, having had two normal pregnancies, even I could see that there was a marked contrast between this pregnancy and the pictures that I'd had previously. This was on the Friday. And, so they sent me home at that stage because they said the specialist wasn't available till the following day, which was awful. I was then told yet again bad news. Could you tell? Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see 'Resources'). Sometimes specialist scans such as 3D scans, or MRI scans, are used to examine the baby in greater detail. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. This time, they discovered the baby has a two vessel cord (only one vessel from placenta to baby instead of two) and I've been monitored to make sure the baby grows properly and kidneys aren't damaged. We decided that we wanted medication to help me. But now that's changed. The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests. At first the closeness came through a sense of guilt. Abortion has never raised any moral dilemmas for me and I am an atheist, so there are no religious issues. He sounded like a wild animal in pain, deep pain. But they didn't. The termination would be averting a tragedy. Many people were deeply affected by their experiences of the 20-week and subsequent specialist scans. We strongly advise readers not to take drugs that are not prescribed by your qualified healthcare provider. Slightly marked from our peers. I have a terrible hatred of pregnant women and a new respect for infertile couples. During the examination, sonographers need to keep the screen in a position that gives them a good view of your baby. The results come in stages. We, I was with my mum, and they scanned and found choroid plexus cysts on the brain, which is just a mark, it's a marker on the brain, it's a, what they call a 'soft marker'. By 7pm, I still hadn't delivered the baby. And before they gave me any of the results she asked a colleague to come and told me she wanted to check something, with a colleague, and by then I was getting very concerned because I'd never had that happen before. We left the hospital a couple of hours later. At first, I still had to deal with the physical implications of having given birth. On January 18, my baby was born, at 23 weeks - a little boy. Try to relax and take it easy. You've had your, you know, you've had your triple test and everything was fine. It can be such a shock so do whatever you need to feel better. So at least then we went to that next stage prepared for the worst really. It was over. The scan can provide information that may mean you have to make further, important decisions. I then found that soft markers means 'vague unproven suggestion of a link', and that echogenic locii are small concentrations of calcium which are incredibly common and harmless. The ultimate betrayal. You're in and out and that was it. And thank God I did. I have horrible thoughts. And the first few things they said it didn't sound as thing, as though things were terribly wrong. When I see a child with Down's syndrome, I have a tremendous need to explain myself and apologise a million times over. I was young, I didn't need one. And so we talked about it euphemistically, never saying the word "research". Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. We were told to go to the hospital immediately. We thought it would all be over very quickly but, in fact, it was another 11 hours before the baby was delivered. Which she reassured us that she'd be absolutely fine, this was a one-off. It was a bit worrying but on the plus side I got an extra couple of scans and an extra couple of pictures. And that was extraordinary to see the detail that that could offer. The doctor told me he was 98% sure this was a failing twin pregnancy. And I'd been on the internet looking up all sorts of things and everything was so negative, it was very depressing, because I thought, 'Well, maybe they've made a mistake, or maybe it's something they can fix, I don't know'. He wanted to talk about it, but I didn't. We felt as if we were in limbo. It went from bad, to worse, to worse, to dire, then to better. The sonographer told me to take the notes, and the scan photos with me so they could review them also. We'd just spent some time away on a, on a summer holiday and come back expecting to have this scan and be told, 'All fine. Thanks girls, it's amazing how protected our babies are in there isn't it?! You may like someone to come with you to the scan appointment. She brought up a picture of the heart on the screen. The scan looks for 11 different conditions in your baby and cannot find everything that might be wrong. I couldn't have the added responsibility for changing his mind. Laura miscarried her twin babies in February. News stories, speeches, letters and notices, Reports, analysis and official statistics, Data, Freedom of Information releases and corporate reports. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". I should stop being dramatic and pessimistic. At the time the same thing had, exactly the same thing had happened to my friend a month before, and her scan was absolutely fine. Let a mum know you're thinking of them send one of our personalised Mother's Day cards today, Home Just doing it. It would have been nice to see someone straight away because I was in such shock. Find more information and details of support groups on NHS.UK.
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